“I don’t know if you have any message for the people involved in this about what a safe protest would look like in terms of risk of transmission and distance between groups,” Coster said.

Tamaki replied: “Actually, Andy. I went out of my way to talk to the team. That’s been the biggest talking point of the past few weeks; why the public space of the venue is so big. That tells us about distancing, masks and then QR stations, scanning and hands-on safety.” It gives us the opportunity to do other things, so we go out of our way to do everything…”

Coster, although friendly throughout the conversation, did not seem convinced.

“Do you think this is achievable?” he asked. “I’m guessing that’s going to be a pretty big number.”

Tamaki responded by referring to then-Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern.

“Well, probably,” he said. “As your boss said, let’s be the first in the world to show a great example of how to do this. We can also have a positive outlet valve. This will be a good catharsis for many people. And it eliminates a lot of the problems you might have with the police on the other side, you know? … We need to check this. I believe I have a good influence on many leaders and they are willing to follow suit. … I think it sends a good message, not just to the people of New Zealand, but globally.”

Coster said he agrees the right to protest is important, but said a rally could backfire for the religious leader in terms of public perception, especially if rules are not followed.

“That’s where you’re going to get a lot of anger from, as people look at this and say, ‘All these people let us all down, we closed our businesses, we didn’t see our families, we didn’t go to our funerals and weddings, but these are people deciding they can gather,'” he said. “So, I know you’re going to be thoughtful about this because it has to do with the reputation of the church and things like that.”

Tamaki assured her that he had gone out of his way to make sure that wouldn’t be the case.

“I really want to do this as well, as properly, as we can,” he said. “And I truly believe we can.”

Coster said having protesters wear masks would help public perception, as it would be inevitable for the bubbles to break. At the time, no more than two household “bubbles” of up to 10 people were allowed to meet at a time when meeting outside.

Tamaki responded, “Let me tell you Andy, I’m going to make this happen,” and jokingly asked if the Police Commissioner knew where he could find a million masks.

“We could probably help with the mask,” Coster said, to which Tamaki replied: “It would be great if we could.”

As the conversation drew to a close, Coster encouraged Tamaki to get vaccinated after learning that he and his wife were hesitant. According to the transcript, Tamaki laughed.

“Thanks for that, Andy. Yes, no, thank you.

Neither Costner nor his assistant is expected to be called to testify at the hearing, which is planned to last until next week.

Defense barrister Ron Mansfield KC, representing all four defendants, argued today that the online meeting showed police were initially unconcerned with the protests as long as precautions such as distancing were observed. Questioning a former adviser to the Commissioner of Police, he argued that the arrest of the couple only took place following a pressure campaign by Parliament and the media against the police.

“New Zealand Police knew there was pressure to make an example of Brian Tamaki and the (Destiny Church-affiliated protest group) Freedom and Rights Committee,” Mansfield said, suggesting that if the arrests were not political, previous leaders were. Black Lives Matter and Groundswell protests were also to blame.

But prosecutor Matthew Nathan insisted the case was much simpler.

He is expected to spend tomorrow watching footage from repeated rallies. He said Brian and Hannah Tamaki were filmed either violating distancing rules or addressing the crowd when distancing was not clearly being observed.

In his opening statement, Nathan told Judge June Jelas that despite what Brian Tamaki might have promised, not enough precautions were taken.

When the September 2021 Zoom meeting ended, Coster and Brian Tamaki exchanged pleasantries.

“You’re doing a great job Andy and Wally. We are truly grateful for a great police force…” Tamaki said.

Coster responded: “Wally and I talked about how you reach a group of people that no one else can, and how great it is to have an impact on the lives of those who would otherwise be left in a bad situation.”

But by February the following year, relations between the two appear to have cooled significantly when anti-vaccination mandate protesters began gathering in Parliament for a three-week occupation. At this point Tamaki had been charged with four lockdown breaches and spent more than a week in jail for breaching bail by attending a Christchurch rally.

The email dated February 10 and signed by the “Freedom and Rights Coalition Team” sent to Coster emphasized that the Parliament protest was not their business.

“We watched with horror as all the protest chaos unfolded on Parliament Grounds this week,” the email said. “We can see from afar that things are getting very ugly… There was complete chaos on the field.”

The email referenced Tamaki’s Sept. 24 Zoom meeting with Coster in which Coster warned that if Coster did not organize a peaceful protest, “more excited groups” would use the gap to cause mayhem.

“Brian kept that promise, but you attempted to frame, arrest, and smear him,” the email said.

“We are appalled by what we have seen in Wellington this week and the crowds are becoming increasingly violent and out of control. It is because of your actions, Mr. Coster, that these protests have turned violent and you have attempted to silence and eliminate peaceful leadership. In the absence of true leadership, anarchy ensues. This is your fault, Mr. Coster. This is yours.” “You mismanaged and aggravated the protest action in the country.”

The group proposed that Tamaki step in to “peacefully negotiate” with Parliament protesters “to prevent this from escalating further.” However, Tamaki was currently trapped in his house due to curfew and the note ended.

“We still have not had the honor of a response,” the group added in a follow-up email three days later.

Police ended the occupation by force led to violence against officers weeks later and Burning of the Parliament playground.

Brian and Hannah Tamaki, along with co-defendants Jennifer Marshall and Kaleb Cave, could face fines and up to six months in prison if convicted of violating lockdown rules by attending or organizing unlawful gatherings. But in reality, prison time is a very unlikely scenario.

Lawyers repeatedly cited precedent-setting trial of fellow lockdown protesters Billy Te Kahika, who was first sentenced to four months in prison last year for staging a protest outside TVNZ headquarters in Auckland Central on the first day of the nationwide Covid-19 Delta variant lockdown. Later a Supreme Court judge broke the sentenceinstead he orders that he be convicted and released.

Captain Craig He is an Auckland-based journalist covering courts and justice. He joined the Herald in 2021 and has covered the courts since 2002 across three newsrooms in the US and New Zealand.

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